Motor Trend’s St. Antoine Picks on Hybrid Owners
Motor Trend’s Arthur St. Antoine is pulling no punches on today’s hybrid owner. He quickly casts an unfavorable image over the eco-friendly crowd, saying, “For many buyers, a hybrid car is nothing more than the four-wheeled equivalent of a yellow LiveStrong wristband-a conspicuous, self-satisfying, effort-free membership card into the "I Care" club.
Comments
Darren
I mostly agree. Here at my place of work, we have 4 people who drive Hybrids. They all have communtes in excess of 50 miles. They keep trumpeting how they are 'saving the eviroment'.
When I tell them they would be better off either driving a disel or, even better, MOVING, they look at me like I suggested they sell a child.
Marketing is an amazing thing eh?
Paul In Jersey
Mr. St.Antoine is correct. Motor Trend just picked up another subscriber.
Rip
off the mark - I only know 3 people with a hybrid but all did it for very practical reasons. all three have large gas guzzlers and wanted something a little more economical to drive to the grocery store and the majority of their in-town errands.
a residual effect is that they feel better about their choices in a changing energy environment and all seem quite happy with the results - all claiming that they are breaking the 40mpg mark for in-town use.
This opinion smacks of the crowd who isn't doing anything to improve our energy consumption and refuses to see the opportunities that lie ahead with the changes in energy prices. Their solution is to attack anyone who does.
This group is always the last to realize that the early adopters are leaders and promote the advance of new technologies in this industry. We will be forced to deal with this issue and their denial doesn't serve the public nor the industry which will be forced to change. At $5 p/gal they'll still be advocating large block V-8s saying the energy issue isn't real.
The only kudo's this narrow minded opinion deserves is to hasten it to the garbage heap of wasted words. It was Motor Trends singular and consistent attack of anything other than business as usual that inspired me to dump both their Truck Trend and Motor Trend subscriptions!! I can see that nothing has changed!
Dustin B.
I'd have to agree with St. Antoine as well...in general anyway.
davido
So people pose. What's special about the poses of hybrid owners? So what? Of course hybrid owners are making a personal statement with what they drive. EVERYBODY DOES!
What kind of statement is being made by the folks who used to drive minivans or wagons when they buy off-road capable SUVS that they NEVER drive off-road?
What are the folks who drive way more horsepower than they can handle safely and I suspect in most cases rarely if ever use saying?
Oollyoumn
Certainly St. Antoine is largely correct. But so what? Most people drive cars for the image. Why else would anyone drive a Porsche or Hummer? I would argue that any new car purchase is mostly to satisfy ones ego. To go around criticizing others for their facade appears hypocritical.
What I don't understand is that I frequently hear people justify a hybrid purchase by stating the number of miles they drive. I understand regenerative braking and stop and start engine technology, but most of my miles are open road. I have had a set of front brake pads last more than 180k miles. Isn't carrying hundreds of extra pounds and processing more materials hurting more than it is helping the environment? But then again image is the point.
I would like a Prius without the hybrid but with a manual transmission.
Robert
if i want an economical car i will get a VW TDI or one of the new Honda diesels.
Sharky
Who the hell doesn't buy a car for what they feel it says about them?? At least hybrid owners' vanity is benefitting the overall population in a small way as well as their own egos. Hummer owners are peacocking and killing the planet at the same time. Why doesn't that hypocrite St Antoine (and his dittoheads on this post) speak up about that?
Unfortunately this doesn't suprise me. Generally speaking, car mag writers and editors seem to be a conservative bunch. As a car nut and a progressive I've let the veiled jabs roll off my back for as long as I've been able to read. What this really is is political commentary -- St Antoine, like many before him, is taking a swipe at liberals. A hybrid car is a brilliant and beneficial piece of engineering, and as car fans we should be able to find common ground in the advancement of the automobile.
Leave the politics at home, St Antoine. If you want to be a conservative political commentator go work for Fox News.
Jeb
I liked St. Antoine's writing at C&D and wondered where he had wandered off to. Picked up a MT a month or so ago and was nicely surprised...anyway, I tend to agree about the Prius Posers as well. The automotive equivalent to a LiveStrong bracelet, but with MUCH higher TCO. :)
Chris M.
So since we're criticizing hybrid buyers, why not criticize the people who buy energy efficient light bulbs and appliances or the commuter cyclists out there? Or do those get excluded from this criticism simply because they don't have a "energy efficient" badge physically on them?
I think anyone who criticizes a hybrid buyer has deeper problems of their own, and should stick with sorting those out. Hybrid cars should not give you an automatic halo, but everyone has their reasons to buy them. So Mr. "St." Antoine, get over it, worry more about yourself and remind me not to read your articles.
Reilly
While correct in a generalization, it revives the old argument that car enthusiasts throw down constantly: that nobody but car enthusiasts are allowed to really care about their cars. It's an artificial argument, like old rich people complaining about "new money." The reality is that car enthusiasm takes many forms, not just a classic horsepower skew.
Corco16446
See, here's the thing. If everyone were to trade in their car today for a Prius, we'd still be completely screwed if you believe the environmentalist mantras.
People buy Pri-i or whatever simply so they can say "I have a hybrid." People who buy Priuses just want everyone to know they are saving the environment- even though they actually aren't.
People who ride their bike to work, carpool, ride buses, or seek alternative means of transportation are actually saving the environment- but they don't advertise it nearly as much and I therefore have a lot more respect for people who do that.
Texas_Dude
It's trendy to drive a hybrid, which I think is great. People also think they are saving tons of money, which isn't entirely true. If you want to save tons of money, get a Focus or Yaris at around $13-17K and get your 30-40 mpgs.
Jeff
In general, sure he's right. Doesn't make me like Motor Trend any more than I used to though. And I'd rather people drive hybrids than people drive huge SUVs that are un-necessary. It could be worse.
uragan
I agree, 95%, with MT. Most of the people who buy hybrids probably by them to SHOW that they care. But it does not mean they don't. Others buy it because they are misinformed (they would be better served by a Corolla, but Corollas give the "wrong" message about you). If the US consumer (in general) really cared about saving fuel and the environment, the 4 cyl. T100 would have been a success, the hybrid Accord would still be on the streets, everybody would be driving a diesel Golf and all full-size pick-ups and SUV's would also be diesel. If people really want to save some fuel, go buy an Aveo while your Smart comes to your nearest dealer.
Jeb
I think to be particular is that lots of people buy PRIUSES to make a statement. Hybrid tech is clever and does some things well, but it's never been the best answer to any question.
andrew
re: Hybrid Accord - in fact, Honda marketed the hybrid Accord as their top line loaded performance model, not the fuel-sipper the Civic hybrid is touted as. The facts that fuel savings were minimal and the price was extraordinarily high doomed the hybrid Accord.
secret asian man
All you hybrid defenders are missing the point:
20/22 city/highway mpg for the hybrid versus 16/24 mpg for the 460L
Assuming you drive 50/50 highway/city, you save 0.05 gallons per mile. Assuming you drive just a few more miles on the highway, it actually evens out.
That's just the gas - once you count the non-trivial costs of manufacturing batteries with toxic chemicals, you're almost certainly damaging the environment.
Why do people pay the extra money? To pose.
If you want a nice, fuel-efficient luxury car, buy a diesel.
If you actually care about the environment but need a car, buy a Corolla.
On the other hand, if you're a smug yuppie that wants to feel superior, the LS600h is a wonderful car.
Tim Taplin
Honda's excursion into hybrids was cut short by this principle. NO one wanted to buy a hybrid that wasn't easily distinguishable from non-hybrid models. They've made their current hybrids more visibly different and dropped the ones that made the most sense for average users.
I agree completely with this argument.
chris
Secret asian man hit the nail on the head. There is a smug factor with hybrid owners, hybrids are a waste of money IMO. There are better ways to help mother earth then buying a hybrid, the cost to savings to enviromental friendliness just isnt there.
Larry
I agree, for the most part. I notice "Rip" says it's off the mark -- but doesn't say his friends got rid of the gas guzzlers. When they want to "style" they get back in the gas hogs.
golfer
Finally, someone telling the truth. Now, all someone needs to do is tell the truth about the cradle to grave energy consumption & CO2 contributions of a Hype-rid...and of course, man-made global warming, and we'll be free from the Hype (rid).
southern
I don't like it when people tell me what to drive.
Therefore I will give to the hybrid owner the little bit of politeness they don't give me.
I think everybody should buy what they damn well please for their own reasons.
The rest of you can kiss my muffler.
Serge Simpson
A distinction should be made, IMHO, between those who drive truly efficient hybrids (Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius) and those who drive absurd hybrid SUVs and luxobarges. The Honda and Toyota are decent sized family cars that post untouchable mileage numbers for cars their size. Those people who choose to drive those cars deserve to be applauded for doing the right thing. It's not just about saving money; to some it may be political/ethical statement. What they are doing DOES matter, and at least they're trying. If St. Antoine rides an electric scooter or a bicycle to work, he can bash hybrid driving citizens for not doing enough, otherwise he is just another hypocrite.
Scott in AZ
It doesn't seem like those people here ripping on the author/article actually read the article. The whole premise that he wrote about was justifying spending an extra $33,000 on a high performance luxury hybrid (Lexus LS600l), as opposed to the regular, gas engined car. I tend to agree with him on this one - mainly because the gas savings isn't really there for this particular hybrid, and the only reason to get the hybrid is the badge on the back and the ability to flaunt it to your gaucking, socialite friends.
But at the same time, if you have over $100,000 to spend on a car - get whatever you want. I don't run with that crowd and thus don't have to worry about dealing with thier overinflated, "I'm saving the environment because I bought a hybrid" ego.
Now, we all know that the hybrid solution isn't necessarily the best available fix for MPG or saving the environment. We'd all be better off driving small cars with eco-friendly 4-bangers/diesels and getting 40+ MPG. Heck, ride a bike or the bus. Take an interest in carpooling.
Overall though, I have to agree that the hybrid thing is too marketing friendly and panders to those who want to make the eco-statement, even if the statement is ill-informed. So either way, it's a lost cause in my mind. Let them buy what they want, and those in the know will continue to hope that better options come along soon.
And seriously, we can't cry too much about paying $3/gallon, when everyone else in the world is paying almost twice that.
Bart
Here in Massachusetts, tdi's have been unavailable for some time so the hi-gas mileage alternatives have been Minis (only one dealer), Corollas, Civic coupes, Fits (hard to find) and Ford 'Foci'. None of these offer the utility/safety of a Prius. Forget driving experience. Not relevant.
I know 4 people with Prius'. They all love them: Absolutely reliable, demand nothing of the driver, give superior if not as-advertised mileage, and the owners believe that as early adopters they are priming the market place for improved designs later.
Of course many buy these cars to make a statement but buying a car to make a statement is news? Must have been a thin news month for the editors.
Rocha
I believe I have read every post on this subject, and I don't think anyone who actually owns a hybrid has spoken up, until now. I find it regrettable that we all continuously fail to resist the temptation to generalize and oversimplify an entire demographic based upon one superficial trait, such as political leaning (liberal, conservative, elephant, or donkey), hair color (dumb blondes), skin color, height, and now, in this case, hybrid ownership. This is a major obstacle to communication and dialogue that we have yet to overcome.
With that being said, I have owned a Honda Insight for 5 years. I bought it used in 2002 for $12,000 so that I could have inexpensive, reliable transportation. For that purpose, it has proven to be one of the best purchases I have ever made, period. I did not buy this car to make a statement about who I am and what I may be doing for the environment, but I will say that it's ULEV status was an added bonus for me (of course, every choice we make reveals something about our values). Without a doubt, all other things being equal in my life, I have used significantly less gas in the past 5 years than if I had been driving a conventional coupe, not to mention an SUV.
I do believe that everyone has a right to drive whatever they want to drive, but we must all realize that our choices have consequences, and that those consequences are felt not just by ourselves, but by our families and neighbors the world over. Let's resist the temptation to make pseudo-logical extrapolations about hybrid drivers. They could be poseurs, but they could also be trying to do their little part for themselves and for you. Every little bit helps, and small steps can equate to big change.
Cicero
I pick on hybrid drives all the time because they have better range when it comes to miles, it pays off sooner (5 years as compared to 10 for a hybrid) and the fact that people who drive hybrids are trying to cultivate an image that they care more about the planet then the rest of us
Rocha
Let me also add that I am a huge sports car enthusiast who also fantasizes about some SUVs, like the H3, Land Rover Defender, Hummer Hx Concept, the BMW X6, and a few others. Here's an idea, how about the auto manufacturers provide package deals that include your gas guzzler of choice with a low-cost, environmentally-friendly vehicle. You drive the latter on most commute days and drive the former only when you need it or on the weekends. Will this spur auto sales and help to meet CAFE goals? I don't know, but it might be worth studying.
forrest
I bought a Prius 2 weeks ago as an alternative for my wife to drive the kids to school - 2 10 mile round trips a day, and one to the grocery store/mall was costing me $350-400 a month in fuel for her Odyssey at about 17 mpg combined.
Now, she drives the Prius to shuttle them around and we've spent $20 since the purchase.
The Odyssey is still there for when she NEEDS a larger vehicle to carry people/stuff, and I'm saving money.
I like that.
It's an "interesting" car to drive, but no substitute for the torque of my MazdaSpeed 6 or my soon to arrive new M3.
hwyhobo
Sorry, but it's utter bs. His examples are those of ridiculously expensive luxo vehicles that one rarely if ever notices on the road. A vast majority of hybrids you will see in Silicon Valley are Prius, and they were bought because the State of California decided in its infinite wisdom to award carpool lane stickers for the idiotic diamond lanes that local municipalities in their infinite wisdom inflicted upon us in places where they do most harm. If you want to get to work on 280 around Saratoga intersection, you better have the *&$%#*@ sticker, or it will take you an hour. It's not vanity, it's desperation.
I for one regret that I didn't buy one.
Pete
While I agree with the generalization, as a generalization, I do think it is a bit short-sighted. Hybrids are not the end-all solution, but their popularity is fueling (pun intended) the R&D and funding for the end-all alternative fuel solution(s). I'm happy that there are people that are buying Hybrids and I don't really care what reason they have for buying one. Ultimately, the article was about a single specific hybrid and I sure his generalization applies, but then you can come up with exactly the same generaliation for any $100K car; hybrid or not. Just look at the Tesla; $100K for an electric Lotus Elise! That is just nuts.
Mena
I don't. I could care less what others think about me or my car. My reasons are mostly performance oriented. If I wasn't into performance, I'd drive a used Honda Civic as my priority would just be point A to point B.
Ducati Minor
St. Antoine's a fool--not 'cuz he's wrong, but because he's stating something everyone else has. Hybrid owners are a smug bunch (South Park, everyone), but a lot less bitchy than the diesel crowd.
secret asian man
Mile per gallon is about as stupid a number as horsepower per liter.
The numbers that matter in performance are horsepower per pound (or per lb/s fuel flow), and the numbers that matter in fuel conservation are gallons per year. There's only one thing that matters in racing, and that's lap time, and there's only one thing that matters in fuel conservation, and that's fuel burned.
I drive a Ford F-150, and a long-bed at that. I put a tank in it every month or month and a half. My housemate jokes I should put Sta-Bil in it.
I burn 20 gallons a month, which is a good deal less than most people buying "fuel-efficient" cars. How? I live in a walkable neighborhood and adjusted my work schedule so that I don't need to drive far or often.
For a casual driver, buying a hybrid is not only environmentally stupid, it's economically stupid. You're trading a hundred gallons a year of gas for a hundred gallons a year of toxic chemicals used to make batteries.
Want to save gas? Buy a smaller car, drive less, and plant a tree.
It'll make a measurable difference, but it won't get you any cred amongst Silicon Valley and Hollywood types.
But you know where Silicon Valley and Hollywood types usually drive their Priuses?
To their Gulfstreams.
steve parker
"Saint" Antoine is an asshole. How many hybrid vehicle owners did he survey to develop his big deal "opinion"? Let Art and his wife (who is a GM PR person, by the way ... at least she was when I knew her; if they are still married)do the bidding of the General. They can go the same way as the dinosaurs have gone ...
Rex
Hurray! Hurray! :)
For Scott in AZ who took the time to read the story and not just start slamming All Hybrid blindly like some on here.
Boo! Boo! :(
To the writer of this piece for not pointing out that the story was main talking about Lexus LS600h. And not all Hybrids
As to the Mr. St Antoine point I totally disagree as to his premise that all hybrid owners are just trying to show their greenest. As his statement just blatantly seems bias to his hate of the hybrid technology for what ever reason. I agree that there is some me to attitude is the hybrid crowd; it's mostly made up of people just trying to save on their fuel cost. I don’t see that as a bad thing. I don't see how this is any different that the SUV trend for the last 10 – 20 yrs. All I ever see in these vehicles are single drivers riding in their living rooms on wheels. As to the LS600h selling so well, Good for it! Hey! If I had a $100+ grand lying around and I could get a vehicle that has V12 performance and V6 to V8 mileage I'd do it in a heart beat. Hybrid are the only solution but the best for now. Maybe the Mercedes Benz Diesel Hybrid will the next big thing and give some of the haters a new Target
hwyhobo
But you know where Silicon Valley and Hollywood types usually drive their Priuses?
To their Gulfstreams.
You watch too much daytime TV. My advice - get a job. Oh, I take it you have never been to Silicon Valley, have you?
Chaos831
Out here in California, I believe most hybrid drivers purchased the car so the could drive solo in the "HOV" lanes. Fortunately, the state has quit selling more of those permits. Of course the HOV lanes are somewhat a joke since one adult and an infant qualify as a high occupancy vehicle.
There are some "environmentalists" who drive hybrids to show how "green" a life they live. Of course, they don't consider the end to end pollution total for their vehicles. They ignore the additional pollution incurred during the manufacturing of the vehicles, the fact that the batteries are highly toxic, and the cost of disposing of the vehicle when they get tired of it or the batteries have worn out. Then there is the huge amount of pollution involved in transporting via ship from Japan to the United States.
Then there is the plug-in hybrid. What an incredible non-polluting alternative... I'm sure that every watt of electricity that is charging the battery came from a non-polluting generating plant.
secret asian man
hwyhobo: Actually, I was born within an hour's drive of Silicon Valley and lived and worked there for a decade. I'm also in the aviation business, and nowhere is the private jet market hotter than Silicon Valley.
The Google twins, those anti-global-warming crusaders? They fly a personal wide-body jet. It is without exaggeration one thousand times the weight of the average SUV.
Al Gore? Flies a Gulfstream.
See the Men's Journal cover with DiCaprio about his quest against global warming? That picture is taken with him in front of ... a private jet.
I am willing to wager the gentleman's sum of one dollar and public humiliation that Prius owners are more likely than the population at large to have ridden in a private jet.
Takers?
secret asian man
_Then there is the plug-in hybrid. What an incredible non-polluting alternative… I’m sure that every watt of electricity that is charging the battery came from a non-polluting generating plant._
Actually, it is a great alternative.
Even a coal-fired plant has a significantly superior thermal efficiency compared to an in-car ICE. Larger engines have a lower surface area/combustion volume ratio. This means that less heat is lost to the combustion vessel (in the case of a car, heating that goes into the head, from the head into the coolant, and from the coolant to the radiator, where the heat is wasted - and the process causes drag as well!) Also, engines that don't have to be responsive or run well at a great variety of power outputs can be optimized for one specific power output. The efficiency of a small ICE can vary by a factor of three or four depending on rpm and manifold pressure.
This efficiency goes up even further when we consider that most plug-ins will be charged at night, when there is excess capacity. It costs significantly less to generate at off-peak times.
Beyond the just the thermal efficiency of the plant, there's also the (non-trivial) fuel delivery costs. Driving trucks through traffic to fill up fueling stations all over the place is much less efficient that dumping a few hundred tons of coal off in one place.
This adds up to a significant (as in somewhere around cutting in half) reduction in fuel consumed.
That's a 50 percent reduction, compared to the 5 percent reduction from the LS600h
Add to this the coal comes from Pennsylvania, and not Venezuela or Saudi Arabia. Being able to tell the House of Saud to go sell sand would be worth it alone.
And that's just assuming the use of coal, which is the worst possible option. Since plug-ins are an energy-storage device, they can be charged via intermittent power sources such as solar and wind.
Plug-in electric power makes environmental, economic, and political sense. A five hundred pound system to reclaim brake energy makes significantly less sense.
cardrone
To hell with the Frog. I bought a Prius because it ACTUALLY DOES get 48-50 miles per gallon using REGULAR gas, and I have a long commute. Lets see Frog-boy discuss why the 62 year old men buy in hair pieces buy a Corvette. Salo!
Greg T
Blanket generalizations about car buyers, hybrid or otherwise, are likely to say more about the source than the target.
But if people would make their car buying and energy politics decisions the way secret asian man does, we all would be spared much silliness, including of our own device.
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